Episode 11
The One About Inner Validation with Sarah Ann LaFleur
In this week's episode, I speak to Sarah Ann LaFleur, a trauma-informed relationship counsellor, writer, and post-lineage yoga teacher. You might know her from Instagram where she shares education on trauma and the healing process with over 102,000 followers!
Tune in to hear us talking about:
- The truth about seeking validation externally, versus inner or self-validation
- The profound healing of IFS (internal family systems)and parts work
- The impact and legacy we create for the next generation by integrating our parts and doing healing work
- How to make sense of nuance and hold more than one truth
- The pros and cons of different therapeutic settings (coaching vs therapy)
And, in this week's behind-the-scenes 'The Patron Part with Sarah Ann LaFleur' Sarah shares her thoughts on sobriety, rule-breaking and a defining moment in her maturity.
Become a subscriber to 'The Patron Part' of the podcast for just £5. (or by joining The Maven Haven®️)
Find out more about the podcast, all the perks of becoming a patron, and leave me a voice note testimonial here: https://www.ebonieallard.com/podcast
Meet Sarah Ann LaFleur:
Sarah Ann LaFleur is an IFS therapist who specializes in trauma, addiction, and relationships. She helps people become the loving adults they needed when they were younger.
She helps people recover from complex trauma and dysfunctional family dynamics. She uses her platform to educate and advocate around complex trauma and relational intimacy. Facilitates embodied practice in her community, as well as sharing her own story through poetry and story medicine.
Connect with Sarah:
https://www.instagram.com/sarahanntherapy
https://www.sarahannlafleur.net/
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To talk to Ebonie about anything in this episode you can whatsapp her or DM her on Instagram.
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Transcript
Today's guest is a licenced counsellor, a trauma educator
Speaker:and IFS practitioner who is passionate about helping people
Speaker:recover from relational trauma and dysfunctional family
Speaker:dynamics. You might know her from Instagram where she shares
Speaker:information on healing and the healing journey with over
Speaker:100,000 followers. I loved this conversation. Today's guest is
Speaker:Sarah Ann LaFleur. And we are talking about invalidation and
Speaker:parts work, integration work. I loved this conversation because
Speaker:I feel like she held the two parts of being both a licenced
Speaker:counsellor, and also a coach and a creative and a woman who's
Speaker:living her own story really, really well. I hope that you get
Speaker:a lot from this episode. If you do if you enjoy it, please let
Speaker:her know please let me know. And please share it with a friend
Speaker:who you think could benefit from this episode. Thank you so much.
Speaker:Let me know how you get on. Enjoy. You are listening to
Speaker:adulting with Ebonie season seven brings together
Speaker:neurodiversity Human Design and embodiment so that Gen X or
Speaker:millennial misfits and late diagnosed neurospices become
Speaker:empowered, embodied and fully expressed. This is the show
Speaker:where I actively encourage you to feel your feelings rather
Speaker:than think that glow up, not grow up and become full of
Speaker:yourself. Because who the fuck else should you be full of each
Speaker:week I have real and raw conversations about what it
Speaker:takes to be fully resourced and have happy, healthy, intimate
Speaker:relationships as a dopamine deficient adult wanting to
Speaker:create a better future by being the change that you want to see
Speaker:in the world. I'm your host Ebonie Allard aka Ebonie Alchemy
Speaker:late diagnosed audHDr combined type and aspergers in case you'd
Speaker:like specifics artist, mystic and self actualization
Speaker:facilitator, I'm an international award winning
Speaker:multiple brain integration technique master coach with
Speaker:special interest in embodied human design for Neuro
Speaker:divergence. I've been in the personal development creativity
Speaker:and entrepreneurship spaces all of my life and as a five to
Speaker:emotional manifesting generator with a left angle cross of
Speaker:distraction. I am here to help you know what to trust, and what
Speaker:to tune out each week I share relatable practical ways that
Speaker:mean, you get to take less responsibility for more reward,
Speaker:and safely remove your camouflage for more belonging,
Speaker:acceptance and fulfilment. Ready, let's go.
Speaker:Hey, my love, thank you so much for coming on and having this
Speaker:conversation with me.
Speaker:Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker:I'm excited, because we are going to talk a little bit about
Speaker:parts integration, a little bit about inner validation. And for
Speaker:me, those are two of the I like working with those themes,
Speaker:looking at that stuff. That and interoception have changed my
Speaker:life the most and enabled me to adult the most. And so that's
Speaker:why I reached out to you. And when you said yes, I was like,
Speaker:Oh, yes, we're good to have conversations, it's going to
Speaker:help so many people.
Speaker:Yeah, wonderful. I mean, these are my favourite subjects to
Speaker:talk about. And I agree with you, too, that those practices
Speaker:have been, at least for me personally, most helpful. Of
Speaker:course, there's other practices that I think are important for
Speaker:trauma recovery, and for kind of finding yourself, but I feel
Speaker:like parts work in particular, it gives you this level of depth
Speaker:and this dimension to your process that other modalities
Speaker:don't always speak to. So really excited to talk about it.
Speaker:And I kind of feel like, for me, at least my journey into that
Speaker:kind of work, was recognising that I have all of these voices
Speaker:inside of my head, or that that there are these different parts
Speaker:of myself. And one of the things I talk about quite a lot in my
Speaker:work is nuance and holding more than one truth. And if I the
Speaker:first person that I needed to be able to hold more than one truth
Speaker:for was myself, how can I possibly hold one more than one
Speaker:truth for my mum, or for some difficult stuff that I've been
Speaker:through or out in the world? Generally, if I can't first
Speaker:acknowledge that there are multiple truths and multiple
Speaker:perspectives even within me. Does that make sense to you? Oh,
Speaker:that makes total sense. Yeah. And ifs, we would call that self
Speaker:leadership or in DBT, it's dialectics. And I think with ifs
Speaker:and parts work, because you're accessing your parts, it's so
Speaker:apparent that there's so many different worlds that can exist
Speaker:in one emotional experience. And it's like once you start a
Speaker:tuning to that, it becomes easier to pick up on parts and
Speaker:other people and just realise, okay, this isn't the full them.
Speaker:They're in a defence right now and I can give them grace for
Speaker:that.
Speaker:Do you feel like this is again when I was when I was young and
Speaker:I used to look at adults, I really believed that there was
Speaker:this like binary line, that one day I would cross and I would go
Speaker:from being a child to being an adult. And I remember in high
Speaker:school, I had a friend who had an older sister, and she had
Speaker:just gone to university. And I was like, Oh, she's such an
Speaker:adult. And she must have been about 80. I am 43. And I'm yet
Speaker:to find that place where all of a sudden, I tripped from being
Speaker:like, a young person or from being an innocent or whatever,
Speaker:to being an adult. Did you have that belief when you were
Speaker:younger?
Speaker:Yeah. And just listening to you talk about it. I'm like, okay,
Speaker:good. I'm 33. And I haven't found that line yet. I'm not the
Speaker:only one.
Speaker:So the more I do this work, and the more I you know, work with
Speaker:different modalities and investigate and all of that. I
Speaker:don't think like my definition of what an adult is, has
Speaker:changed, fundamentally, because I don't think that that line
Speaker:exists. I don't think it's binary. I don't think it's like,
Speaker:child at all. Right. And that's, I guess, for me, that's one of
Speaker:the ways that integrating parts, looking from different
Speaker:perspectives, having these different kinds of conversations
Speaker:is really helpful, because we can look at being a healthy,
Speaker:happy, reasonable person, human, rather than always being about
Speaker:like, highest self, or adult or, you know, those kind of pedestal
Speaker:old versions.
Speaker:Right? Exactly. That really resonates with me, because I
Speaker:think there can be this binary understanding of like, being
Speaker:immature or acting young versus being an adult. And the way that
Speaker:I look at it now is, when I'm in my adult awareness are in this
Speaker:place of self. I'm in touch with everything that came before
Speaker:that's alive in this current experience. And I'm always going
Speaker:to have young parts, I'm always going to have adolescent parts.
Speaker:And the older I get, the more I see them. And I'm like, Oh, this
Speaker:is my, you know, just actually, before I logged on here with
Speaker:you, I had a little tiff with my husband, because he was dragging
Speaker:his feet out the door, and I had like a little temper tantrum
Speaker:moment. It's like, okay, this is my 13 year old part that is
Speaker:nervous about this conversation wants to have her way the way
Speaker:she wants it. And I think like adulting is really just learning
Speaker:to spot those parts and meet them where they're at and fulfil
Speaker:their needs in ways that they may not have been fulfilled
Speaker:before, especially in instances of trauma. Yeah,
Speaker:I love that. But one of the reasons I try and put real
Speaker:language to it also is that when people say, Shadow Work, or they
Speaker:say we parenting work, or they talk about in a parts
Speaker:integration for the average person that can feel really
Speaker:jargony, right, and really therapeutic and so far from
Speaker:them. And I do think those spaces and that work, and having
Speaker:something very outlined is beautiful, and wonderful and
Speaker:important. And I think a lot of us have potentially done more
Speaker:than we give ourselves credit for. Yeah. Do you see that?
Speaker:I do. And you just said, Sit with what you're saying. Because
Speaker:I really, I really appreciate the way that you think. And
Speaker:you're kind of outlining that. And I'm just seeing also like
Speaker:the nuance and holding both perspectives where to as like an
Speaker:ifs therapist, I'm trained in this and I love concepts. I love
Speaker:language. I love the jargon sometimes. But then there also
Speaker:are parts of me that care deeply about making things relatable,
Speaker:which is why I've always like had a social media platform, and
Speaker:I want to meet people where they're at. And I think
Speaker:sometimes we can, we can become overly attached to and
Speaker:overcomplicate these concepts that are really just part of the
Speaker:natural human experience, which is, you know, we're always
Speaker:carrying the past with us, we're always carrying that forward.
Speaker:And there's always an opportunity in the present
Speaker:moment to kind of, like transform or transmute that and
Speaker:that's self actualization to me not to take this into a whole
Speaker:other conversation. And I don't know if I answered your
Speaker:question, but that's what it
Speaker:really did. And for me, like self actualization is adulting
Speaker:like, it's the purpose of of all of my work of why we would
Speaker:bother, like, why would we go into this place? Like why would
Speaker:I continue dialoguing with my inner two year old who I've been
Speaker:mostly telling to hurry up and like or run away? Right like why
Speaker:would I ever find the time to just love her and hardware and
Speaker:like be with this part, unless there was self actualizing like,
Speaker:there has to be some kind of carrot for a some kind of reward
Speaker:that we talk to, and think in in in some jesting that or like
Speaker:saying it, I'm actually thinking of a particular client, who I've
Speaker:been working with for a long time. And who then came very
Speaker:excitedly to session one day to say that she was about to spend
Speaker:a lot of money with somebody to do some shadow work. And that
Speaker:was like, you know, we've been doing Shadow Work for like, X
Speaker:amount of time. And I, and it's that it's that like, some times,
Speaker:there is a I have definitely in my life worked with and done
Speaker:processes in a really sacred really outlined really contained
Speaker:way. With professionals. My dad's a registered
Speaker:psychotherapist, I've always done that I really appreciate
Speaker:people who have certifications, all of that. And I also think
Speaker:there is little pieces of everyday Shadow Work, little
Speaker:pieces of integration work that doesn't need to be a big deal,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Yes, oh, I just want to like jump up in my seat that
Speaker:resonates with me so much. And just to speak to one of my
Speaker:professional experiences. So I work. I'm a trauma addiction
Speaker:relationship therapist trained in ifs, but I work in
Speaker:residential treatment for people struggling with substance use
Speaker:disorders, right. And at the beginning of this particular
Speaker:job, I would consult with ifs, programme directors, certified
Speaker:therapists, etc. And at one point, I met with an ifs
Speaker:therapist who told me you really can't be doing ifs in that
Speaker:setting, you can't be doing pure or real ifs. Because in
Speaker:residential treatment, there's a lot of dual roles that
Speaker:clinicians hold. Like I work with a client differently in
Speaker:that setting than I would in private practice, or I wouldn't
Speaker:have coaching container, I have access. It's a multidisciplinary
Speaker:team, there's different regulations for the place, I
Speaker:won't go into details. But the point being I realised at that
Speaker:point that like specialisation and depth is really important,
Speaker:but so is integration. And so is like if your model isn't able to
Speaker:work with a diverse amount of people and really like meet them
Speaker:where they're at and appreciate those small moments, then I
Speaker:don't find that to be a functional model or a robust
Speaker:model. And I don't think that's the truth of ifs, I think that
Speaker:was actually a therapist part coming up that was speaking for
Speaker:something that they felt in relationship to the model. But
Speaker:anyway, I think that we can put this emphasis on parts work
Speaker:Shadow Work, integration work, and make it this big thing, when
Speaker:really it could be like, I'm going to write in my journal and
Speaker:talk about what's coming up for me. And that's actually a way
Speaker:for me to access my system, or, you know, I'm gonna get on a
Speaker:podcast and like, have a really engaging dialogue. And like this
Speaker:is kind of parts work in a way because it's meeting one of my
Speaker:parts where it's at, and there can be something deeply creative
Speaker:and expressive about it. And not just like this in this really,
Speaker:internal trauma work, which I, there is a use for that. But
Speaker:it's not the only use or expression.
Speaker:It's really nice and really refreshing, I think, too,
Speaker:because again, that's holding, like a bigger perspective,
Speaker:right? Like, it's for me, there are times in and using a model
Speaker:and a clinician basis or in a clinic setting is totally
Speaker:different from having that awareness within yourself using
Speaker:it with your own two year old around yourself so that you
Speaker:don't actually you know, end up mirroring a two year old and can
Speaker:hold that space for them. That's a totally different thing. And I
Speaker:think sometimes we put these things just in this in like a
Speaker:particular setting or a particular place. And for me,
Speaker:mastery is like, so what, what are the implications and
Speaker:applications of us doing this work anyway? Right? Like, what
Speaker:is the legacy of it? How do we go further than that? And in
Speaker:one, you know, I said to you, I really want you to come on and
Speaker:and I want to talk about relationship, and I wanna talk
Speaker:about invalidation. And I think it's, I think what I'm trying to
Speaker:say, is imaginer, the next generation grew up with some of
Speaker:this being so natural, that they didn't have this deep inner
Speaker:validation wound that I see more and more young people having
Speaker:every single day. And potentially, we found it easier
Speaker:or they will things that we could do now that would make it
Speaker:easier for people to relate. Yeah,
Speaker:I mean, that would be beautiful. Such an idea best.
Speaker:But the difference between, like medicine like preventative and
Speaker:cure medicine, right? It's like I want to be offering both at
Speaker:the same time. You know, and I knew about the conversation that
Speaker:you had with that therapist, right they are really in a in a
Speaker:treatment and place. But I feel like we can do preventative care
Speaker:and treatment at the same time. Right? Exactly. So let's take
Speaker:this to relationship stuff. And in a validation, like for you,
Speaker:even though even if I'm saying universalization, like, what
Speaker:does that mean to you in a kind of everyday terms? Like how, how
Speaker:do we? How does How do you see people coming in or in life who
Speaker:could really do with some work around? I mean, in my wild, it's
Speaker:like, not looking outside of them constantly for validation.
Speaker:But just so we're on the same page about what it is that we're
Speaker:talking about. Yeah.
Speaker:So I think your definition fits really well, my working
Speaker:definition of inner validation. And to use parts language, I
Speaker:would say, it's the ability to acknowledge your cards and
Speaker:acknowledge what's happening in your system. And Richard
Speaker:Schwartz, the founder of ifs, you described self leadership as
Speaker:being the primary caretaker of your system. And so in a healthy
Speaker:relationship, of course, we're going to outsource sometimes
Speaker:we're going to borrow our partner self energy, we're going
Speaker:to borrow their calm autonomic energy, and that's part of
Speaker:healthy relationship. But you don't want to rest on that.
Speaker:Because the reality is, nobody can give you perfect attunement
Speaker:all the time, even if they want to, they won't, because
Speaker:circumstances of life don't allow for that. And then I think
Speaker:inner validations important for everybody. But I also think it's
Speaker:especially important for people who have experienced trauma,
Speaker:because trauma inherently disrupts that connection to your
Speaker:internal experience. And so there's going to be a fractured
Speaker:disconnect, that needs repairing. And part of that
Speaker:repairing is learning to just allow your experience to be what
Speaker:it is and have awareness of it. And also for people, which I
Speaker:think might align with some of your interests. But people who
Speaker:are neuro complex or neuro divergent, whatever term kind of
Speaker:feels aligned for people in that category, because oftentimes, I
Speaker:mean, if you even look at research in the last several
Speaker:decades, like, there are people in Now in this generation being
Speaker:diagnosed with things like autism, and ADHD, who completely
Speaker:flew under the radar for 234 or five decades. And so they've
Speaker:had, they've never had their processing style, like
Speaker:acknowledged on the outside. And so if we can become skilled and
Speaker:knowing like how we think how we organise information, how we
Speaker:assemble it, how we express it, then we have more of an
Speaker:opportunity to form relationships that feel
Speaker:nourishing, which sometimes can put us in educator roles in our
Speaker:relationships, which isn't fun. But I also think like we have a
Speaker:responsibility to our system to do that.
Speaker:I love everything you just said, as someone who went under the
Speaker:radar for four decades, the reason for that actually is
Speaker:because I grew up in a household where without using this
Speaker:language, but interoception and somatic experiencing and my own
Speaker:experience, and my autonomy, and my sovereignty were honoured
Speaker:every single day. And so I never knew that I was different, or
Speaker:there was nothing, never anything wrong with that. And
Speaker:because the people around me, the adults around me, always,
Speaker:always lived under the assumption that everybody's
Speaker:experience was different. What was hard was school and work and
Speaker:mainstream society, right? Where I was just constantly wrong. And
Speaker:so I had these two parts, these two truths. And I carry that
Speaker:with me into the work that I do now and the way that I live my
Speaker:life, right, that we, that there has been a huge piece of work
Speaker:for me around, first of all recognising and doing my own
Speaker:inner leadership work and then stopping being a constant
Speaker:educator for everybody in my life and being like, no, no, I'm
Speaker:gonna look after me. Right? And that's, that's what I have. I'm
Speaker:gonna stop trying to be responsible for everybody in the
Speaker:world and model instead of teach potentially.
Speaker:Right? Yeah. And also knowing giving yourself permission to
Speaker:not do that is part of inner leadership and recognising like,
Speaker:if I know my truth and I know my experience, I don't have to I
Speaker:don't have to share that with anybody else or help them
Speaker:understand that process if I don't want to or if it's not
Speaker:right for me.
Speaker:Yeah, I think that's what they call giving no facts on the
Speaker:internet, right? Like that whole thing of like, and my clients
Speaker:will have will have heard me say you do you boo, right. Like for
Speaker:me, there's this place where I suddenly get to where it is calm
Speaker:where it never used to be where I was still somewhere seeking
Speaker:approval. I didn't know that. And again, I really a different
Speaker:initiate for myself between self approval and self acceptance.
Speaker:And I had no idea that I was looking for, even in this kind
Speaker:of integration piece. And in this investigation piece that I
Speaker:was looking for self approval, and the shift from that into
Speaker:self acceptance for me, was the piece that really allowed me to
Speaker:have this inner validation that we're talking.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But I have no idea how I did it. If other people are like, Yes,
Speaker:but how, how do you do this? How do we move into a place of
Speaker:maturity and no validation? Any any insights?
Speaker:Well, I actually have a follow up question with that. But I'm
Speaker:wondering as well. So do you, do you think any piece of that has
Speaker:to do with with being neurodivergent because I find,
Speaker:too, that at least I'll speak for myself, like I have ADHD,
Speaker:it's like, I used to think some of the the parts of me that I
Speaker:really struggled with, I needed to change them or like, If only
Speaker:I could figure out how to. If only, they could be a little bit
Speaker:different than I could meet certain goals, and everything
Speaker:would be okay. And it's like the older I get year by year, I
Speaker:relaxed into myself. And I realise, for example, like, I'm
Speaker:always going to ideate, I'm always going to have a million
Speaker:projects in diverse fields that I'm somehow going to tie
Speaker:together. And that's just part of how I find meaning in life.
Speaker:It's part of how I exercise this, like intellectual
Speaker:restlessness. And that part doesn't need to change. But it
Speaker:gets easier to just identify that within myself. So I feel
Speaker:like even if you're not actively working on yourself, if you're,
Speaker:I don't know, even if you're not actively working on yourself,
Speaker:just by being with you for X amount of time, you're going to
Speaker:become more skilled at being with you. So do you, do you
Speaker:think any of that just has to do with either the natural process
Speaker:of ageing or being neurodivergent?
Speaker:I have no thing else to compare it to. But what I but what came
Speaker:up for me, as you were saying that is I had a conversation, I
Speaker:have had many, many conversations with my dad who
Speaker:likes to have conversations and likes to think in the same way
Speaker:as I do. And there are other people in my family who do not
Speaker:need or have any desire to think and contemplate and philosophise
Speaker:anywhere near as much as the pair of us, right. And that is a
Speaker:part of me that I love. It's a part of me that I enjoy. And
Speaker:when I hit what sometimes when people take ADHD meds, for
Speaker:example, that bit goes and it's really sad for people, right? So
Speaker:there is, for me part of this journey is learning who you are.
Speaker:And learning to love and accept the parts that you love and
Speaker:accept and change the parts that you don't or accept them. And
Speaker:that journey of like, which bits do I want to change and which
Speaker:bits are just, you know, okay, actually, that that's life? I
Speaker:don't think that I think that's the point of living, right? It's
Speaker:I think the point of living is to is the journey. And the
Speaker:conversations I have with my dad, he's loves to tell me you
Speaker:like hooks up he likes to he actually said you'd like to put
Speaker:things in boxes. And I'm like, No, I need hooks, and baskets,
Speaker:right? Like I just need to have I'm like, oh, that fits with
Speaker:that that fits with that. Things need to make sense to me, there
Speaker:needs to be some kind of an order. And what my diagnosis did
Speaker:for me was given me a category that had been missing, right?
Speaker:Like this is massive internal filing system. And I had done so
Speaker:much work on myself and go, that belongs there that belongs there
Speaker:like right. And then there was this kind of odd sock drawer of
Speaker:stuff that I'm like, I see no model for this. I don't
Speaker:understand it. It makes no sense to me. It's confusing me. Then I
Speaker:got my diagnosis, which is a dual diagnosis of ADHD and
Speaker:autism. And so essentially all of these odd socks were like
Speaker:Ebony's contrary quirks. And now I'm like, oh. And there's a new
Speaker:filing system like someone's like, old this cabinet. So one
Speaker:cabinet and inside of me. And now all of those things that
Speaker:have nowhere to go have somewhere to go. And so there's
Speaker:a level of acceptance and a level of like, beef on the
Speaker:inside that comes from that. Yeah,
Speaker:yeah, that makes so much sense. And I think what you're speaking
Speaker:to, not to generalise it but I think for a lot of people
Speaker:getting diagnosed or like having a late diagnosis, it can be
Speaker:really freeing and impact Alright, because it is like this
Speaker:missing component. And then when you have it, it connects a lot
Speaker:of different dots and sort of expands the picture right
Speaker:100% And I'm fine for that to be a generalisation. I think
Speaker:there's also a piece of grief. There's also but like this is
Speaker:true of any change, right? And so for me, the other framework
Speaker:that I lean on his human design, and understanding that I'm a
Speaker:manifesting generator has given me a huge amount of acceptance,
Speaker:because I'm like, well, and this is why I do human design for
Speaker:Neuro divergence, because I can see where certain operating
Speaker:system quirks play out in each individual persons design. And
Speaker:so for me, rather than it being something I want to medicate or
Speaker:eradicate, when we can bring those things into balance, and
Speaker:when they're working in alignment, then it's just an
Speaker:operating system, I actually think it's part of evolution,
Speaker:you know, and it's the world that needs to change and not us,
Speaker:the world is not fit for purpose. It's got all of these
Speaker:antiquated systems days of the week, nine to five, like all of
Speaker:these structures, the need for people that don't exist anymore,
Speaker:like we've evolved. And so every the world outside of us, needs
Speaker:to evolve. And as I'm saying that and like talking to you,
Speaker:I'm like, well, that then has some kind of correspondence for
Speaker:this inner validation, right? Because the world out there is
Speaker:changing so fast. Right? You think about the amount that has
Speaker:changed in our lifetime, I sometimes like to remind myself
Speaker:that the television didn't exist when my dad was a child, and he
Speaker:is not that much older than me. Right? Like, that's insane for
Speaker:that amount of like change in in humans lifetime. And so for us
Speaker:to be validating ourselves on stuff on the outside, that's
Speaker:changing so fast, is actually crazy. It makes much more sense
Speaker:to trust what's going on in here surely,
Speaker:right to work with your system? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of
Speaker:server wind back what you're saying a little bit. This is,
Speaker:this is making me think of when I was describing self leadership
Speaker:or inner validation, and the importance of it when it comes
Speaker:to neuro complexity or neuro diversity. And I think a lot of
Speaker:that this is just my own, like, personal opinion. But I think
Speaker:there's always going to be that tension between our internal
Speaker:system and the world around us. And I'm such an idealist, too.
Speaker:I'm an ENFP, and a generator. And like, I, I live for ideals.
Speaker:And like, I'm always optimistic toward that and have like a lot
Speaker:of integrity with with that. But with that being said, I think
Speaker:that tension is always going to exist, we're not I don't know,
Speaker:if perfect balance and harmony is possible with things outside
Speaker:of us at any given time. I think we strive for that. But my
Speaker:experience is a psychotherapist, and just like walking through my
Speaker:own life is that there always is that tension there. And, but I
Speaker:think, I think you maximise the chances of harmony when like
Speaker:you're okay in here. And I think also, to rewind it back to
Speaker:talking about my experiences in residential treatment. And with
Speaker:the clinical medical model. I've like had this tension in my
Speaker:career where my background is for 10 years, I was a yoga
Speaker:teacher, and I taught Sanskrit and I go to different studios
Speaker:and implement different programmes. I had a studio
Speaker:briefly before COVID, and kind of came from this free spirited
Speaker:way we placed and realised I wanted to do certain kinds of
Speaker:work with people that at least in the states required certain
Speaker:kinds of training licences, etc. And I've often contemplated
Speaker:actually, just pursuing coaching with ifs since the model speaks
Speaker:to me so much. But I recognised that in choosing that I would
Speaker:leave a large number of, I would leave a large number of people
Speaker:without access to certain things of the model, certain parts of
Speaker:the model. And so this is a very long winded way of me, I guess,
Speaker:sharing that I've had this tension as a therapist for a
Speaker:long time. I think I'm gonna live with it for the rest of my
Speaker:career, because I'm up against the clinical medical model. And
Speaker:there are parts of that model that are very harmful, that have
Speaker:historically been harmful, and I believe actively, in some ways
Speaker:do cause harm. For example, in the DSM we still don't have an
Speaker:actual diagnostic category for C PTSD, even though it's
Speaker:recognised by the World Health Organisation. So the clients
Speaker:displaying certain symptoms will slap them with a personality
Speaker:disorder diagnosis, which doesn't give them access to
Speaker:certain kinds of trauma therapies and whatnot. But
Speaker:learning like how to speak for my needs professionally. And
Speaker:also learning how to operate in that space of tension has been
Speaker:really impactful. I don't know what more to say about it, but
Speaker:somehow that's connecting with what you're
Speaker:seeing is it's so it's so so important, right? Because in the
Speaker:work that I do in the in the way that I work with what I call the
Speaker:value filter, which really is like this internal compass, and
Speaker:it's a tool for interoception, for people who have Alex's Mia
Speaker:or who are like, I don't have feelings, or I can't, you know,
Speaker:or my proprioception is really bad, or whatever it is, or who
Speaker:don't even have any of those intellectual thoughts, because
Speaker:they haven't lived in a world where that's a possible
Speaker:possibility for them. Right. One of the things that I do is I
Speaker:work with static and dynamic energies, I work with feminine
Speaker:and masculine energies, or whether we call that yin and
Speaker:yang or sun or moon warrior healer, right, so we've got
Speaker:these different tones or qualities of energy within us.
Speaker:And polarity, or friction, or conflict or tension is what
Speaker:creates growth. It's what changes the world, it's part of
Speaker:the like, oh, in the one hand, we've got like this, this this
Speaker:fire, right, this active arrow, singular focus, and then we've
Speaker:got this like, womb like Uber's energy of the feminine, right
Speaker:and together, they create beautiful attraction, or like,
Speaker:horrific conflict sometimes, but that's where then we get into
Speaker:like conception and birth and also death and rebirth, right?
Speaker:Like the really Carly Mar energy that is really pushed away from
Speaker:polite society, like no one wants to see that bit of
Speaker:destruction, before the new comes through, or the like
Speaker:really, really barren landscape that or that integration period,
Speaker:or any of those things. And so I think, doing this work, having
Speaker:these conversations allows us to hold a whole universe within us.
Speaker:That means that when we face conflict, or when we flake face
Speaker:situations that are uncomfortable or that we don't
Speaker:agree with or the trigger is in some way, there's a some
Speaker:language for it some capacity for it, and some spaciousness,
Speaker:maybe. Exactly.
Speaker:That's so well said, I just want to underline that and put a
Speaker:period at the end of that and make that the whole title of
Speaker:this episode. What you just said.
Speaker:No idea what that was. But yes, that. Okay, before we do
Speaker:actually wrap it up and move in to a lighthearted I say light
Speaker:hearted, light hearted, I around within the patron parlour. I'm
Speaker:Scott asking some really nosy questions. Is there anything
Speaker:else that you want to talk to have the kind of the theme of
Speaker:what it is that we've been talking about?
Speaker:Just that I think I would expand upon what you just said, with
Speaker:the spaciousness, the ability to be with the tensions of the
Speaker:pairs of opposites builds capacity, I think there's
Speaker:something deeply creative about that. And that process can also
Speaker:be one that offers grace. And sometimes it is messy when we're
Speaker:connecting with certain tensions or certain archetypes, or
Speaker:certain energies in our life, like the nature of it is it
Speaker:might feel chaotic. But if we allow that chaos, it can be a
Speaker:process of grace and calm and ease. And that's sort of how I
Speaker:see maturation and adulting is that, you know, if devastation
Speaker:visits me in my life, crisis visits me in my life, I have my
Speaker:parts don't activate as much around it. It's like, of course,
Speaker:I'm going to grieve, of course, I'm going to be scared. But like
Speaker:that ability to kind of soothe myself by naming what is there.
Speaker:And that's really kind of like, the message I want to offer with
Speaker:ifs and parts work is it's not necessarily doing this abstract
Speaker:inner dialogue and work where you go down and find like your
Speaker:biggest deepest trauma like that can be part of it. But it also
Speaker:can just be a very gentle, intuitive process, you know,
Speaker:you're doing parts work, like I said, if you're journaling, if
Speaker:you're speaking for your experience, if you're being with
Speaker:yourself, and I just want to make sure that listeners know
Speaker:that they can access that where they are right now.
Speaker:Thank you for that me too. And I and I think the point of my
Speaker:desire for to have this conversation is so that there
Speaker:are I believe a lot of people who are in my audience in my
Speaker:sphere and maybe in yours as well, who have a kind of
Speaker:philosophy or sensation or belief, a way of living life you
Speaker:have animus and everything right? Everything like I speak
Speaker:to flowers and the moon and like there's this animus energy,
Speaker:right? And if you are one of those people and you've enjoyed
Speaker:this conversation, the likelihood is that ifs and parts
Speaker:work is a model that is going to work for you because there are
Speaker:so many talking therapies that have been wasted my life.
Speaker:Whereas if we're somebody who has these multiple parts anyway
Speaker:and recognises them and has access to that, I think it's a
Speaker:really super powerful tool. And I absolutely you can come, it's
Speaker:built into all my programmes and all, but a very, in a very kind
Speaker:of, I won't tell you, you're eating a vegetable, it's kind of
Speaker:a way. And if there is something specific that you want to work
Speaker:on, you know, please go and work with Sarah, I have spent a lot
Speaker:of time looking at her website, reading her articles, you know,
Speaker:feeling and her energy. And I think it's really important in
Speaker:this day and age to have recommendations and to have
Speaker:like, Nuance within us of like, who would I go to if I want to
Speaker:actually do a piece of work on this or, you know, around that.
Speaker:So, yeah, I just wanted to share that as well. And get all of
Speaker:your links and information in the show notes so that they're
Speaker:really really easy for people to click through to. But if people
Speaker:want to come and follow you, where's the best place to come
Speaker:and say, Hey, or see what you're up to? Yeah, so
Speaker:Instagram, my handles at Sarah and therapy and without the E.
Speaker:Perfect Well, like I said, I'm gonna make sure all the links
Speaker:are there. Thank you so much for just coming in having a free
Speaker:flowing conversation with me it means a lot.
Speaker:Now it's my pleasure. Thanks for your thoughtful questions and
Speaker:dialogue. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker:This has been editing with ebony, I've been Evany you've
Speaker:been great. Thank you so much for all of your support. Please
Speaker:keep listening, liking, rating and sharing so that more people
Speaker:can enjoy and engage with us. If you want even more of me and
Speaker:more importantly, even more of you in your world. Take the next
Speaker:step become a patron and even Haven member get your free human
Speaker:design chart or or your compass aka the value filter. To begin
Speaker:your lower go to www dot ebony allied comm forward slash
Speaker:welcome more and I will see you next.
Speaker:Week
